Stipulations/Manifestations/Mediations: Housing, Employment, Rosie & Ripa
Homophobia is pervasive. It’s a theme that I am obligated to tackle over and over again. At first, as a child of lesbian parents and now as a second-generation, queer identified woman. There are severe implications of homophobia. As an individual, my self-esteem and safety are at stake; in public I am constantly checking and balancing what kind of conduct and/or expression is acceptable. I am sometimes asked to negotiate and/or sacrifice my quality of life in order to serve what the dominant norm is.
Here is a recent request and a past instance that I have been presented with:
Housing:
1)In attempting to secure a place to live, I was offered a basement studio by my mother’s best friend who is a self-identified fundamentalist Christian. When I first came out to my mother, her friend told her that my choices were an abomination. My mother disagreed with this and they stopped having conversations about my sexuality. Afterward, I was always cordial and friendly with her regardless of my opinion about her opinion. But, when her offer came to me this last month it was quite a surprise. She offered me an affordable space to live with a condition: I would be allowed to live there but I would not be allowed to have my partner stay the night. Her explanation was that she would not even let a straight unmarried couple stay together overnight if she rented to someone in a heterosexual relationship. Knowing her faith, I understand her position but have some issues regarding her request that I intend on discussing with her. This is my position and it is to the point: As a woman in a lesbian relationship, a citizen of the state of Oregon, I cannot get legal recognition of my partnership, I cannot get married to my partner. This stipulation of renting is discriminatory due to this and therefore I will not take up residency at her home.
Employment:
2)While working for Portland Brewing Company as a bartender in 2003, I started dating my first girlfriend. I was very excited about the new relationship and secure with being out. Often, my women friends and my lover would pick me up after work. Sometimes they would come inside and wait a minute at the bar while I wrapped things up. I approached my supervisor in the spring and requested, and was given, one day during pride weekend off. The next day, while I was taking a break in the staff room, a female head chef came in and I asked her for a smoke. She gave me one and asked me how I got the weekend off and said, “Did you finger fuck her (my supervisor).” I was so caught off guard that I sat there and said nothing but gave her a thank you for the cigarette. This was the first incident. A week or so later, the other chef came to the side of my bar and requested some beer for the kitchen. As I was filling up my bucket, several waiters and waitresses were gathered next to him waiting for their order. As I was getting everything together, he commented on my Anheiser-Busch belt buckle and said out loud that he knew why I liked it, “Its because of the bush” he implied. Everyone looked at me kind of strange and I shot him a hush look as he returned to the kitchen. About two weeks later, I was called into the supervisor’s office and “let go” due to what was described as “a personality difference.” I felt I was discriminated against because of my sexuality and called Basic Rights Oregon first, for referral to an attorney. I then contacted the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries to go about filing a complaint. I was told by both if I did not have someone who was present to hear the two instance as described above, that I had no case. I lost a job that I loved and was put into an instant economic depression while I tried to secure another job just as summer approached.
Recently, Clay Aiken was a stand-in host on the Regis & Kelly Show. During an interview Aiken interrupted Kelly Ripa by placing his hand over her mouth. She responded to him by saying, “Oh. That’s a no-no” and followed it with “I don’t know where that hand has been.” The following day on The View, Rosie O’Donnell stated the she believed Ripa’s remark to be homophobic, although Clay Aiken has never come out as gay. The two had dialogue live on the show and Ripa said that the remark was due to the fact that she has children and she was responding to the threat of germs.
In my opinion, I can see Rosie’s response to this as a homophobic remark but at the same time, it seems to be somewhat of a projection. I can also see Kelly’s position but not for the reason she state on The View. Clay’s actions were inappropriate because, in a male dominated culture, women have long been silenced but figuratively and realistically, and she certainly didn’t deserve to have any one’s hands placed on her anywhere. I am thankful however, that we have Rosie to represent the LGBTQ (Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Trans, Queer) community, as we need more representation in media. We also need more individuals who are willing to speak out as frankly as she did. It is people who have this kind of courage that get other people to look closely at their actions and statements. These are issues that sometimes only get addressed in small situations but these situations are sometimes the most powerful.
For instance, in discussing my daily adventure to a roommate in 2003, I described a person who’s gender I couldn’t identify as being a “he, she, it, whatever…” and my friend immediately called me out, telling me how inappropriate that statement was. I was a bit taken off guard and nervous but asked her to explain to me why. Even as a lifelong advocate for the LGBTQ community, I didn’t know that the more appropriate approach to this situation was to not be concerned with gender and if I really needed to use gender to better know an individual, to wait until they identified themselves and go from there. This was a life changing moment for me, an invaluable learning experience that, although uncomfortable, changed my world-view forever. This is why it is important to work with each other on a one to one basis (as well as within the larger community) as a means of educating each other and helping people to better understand the complex world we live in.
As a part of my Women’s Studies class this term, these are a few issues I would like to explore. I am interested in hearing opinions and other observations on these matters from others so please, engage in dialogue with me.
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17 comments:
My computer is messing with me tonight so I hope this works out. On the matter of renting from my best friend. You are right in every way. You have a right to be offended, discriminated against is true, bias to your situation that you can't get married. There are many ways in which she was wrong and you have the right to call her on it and to help her understand what she has done. Because of who she is she will be hurt, guilt ridden to some extent, sorry, and probly confused by her own beliefs and what is right and what is wrong. And how could she ever be someone who discriminates. On the other hand we have to look at who she is, ie. a fundamentalist christian woman of approximately 53. How she overlooked her beliefs and opened her home to you in order to get you off the streets, as in homeless for some time. Yes rent was very fair, the studio just had 5000.00 in work done to make it more livable, less basementy. lol. She never said that your partner couldn't come over, just that she couldn't sleep over. I defend her because of how niave she can be and how easily she gets herself in trouble. I truly love her as a friend, she is one of those friendships you don't have to work too hard at.
Regardless of what I have just shared, I am consequently on your side missy. I feel sorry that it happened that way, that you were openly discriminated against by my best friend. That I didn't even recognize it until you pointed it out to me. duh. Sometimes I am only focused on your safety, your security, and how you are in general. I fear for you alot due to almost losing you once. That fear will never go away. You need to follow through and discuss this with her and let her know what she has done. It is important to help her learn more about the reality of the world around her. There will be, are and have always been alternative sexuality in our society, hell, I lived as a lesbian for 14 years and would never ever change those times, regardless of the bad. There was something to be learn for me to go through those times. And I did. I learned one thing for sure. To love with such a depth in my heart that nothing could touch it, ever.
When I discussed your sexuality with her that first time and she called in an abomination, boy was I pissed off. That was one of those times that she stepped on my feet. I had two friends say that to me and it was just the wrong thing to say. In fact, some of the "sin" that she has done, and the other friend had done in the past put them both in such a hypocritical situation that I wanted to slap them silly. But, we agreed to shut up...move on...and not discuss it unless she wants honesty about the situation. When she enquires about you Chels, I give her the truth, when she is hoping you are turning back to being "straight" I tell her to give it up. lol. I say, not a chance today honey. And she just goes...Oh. It is kindof funny, but today she says, well, I just love Chelsi and I want her to be happy and safe.
That is what I want as well for you to be happy, safe, loved, and at peace with your life. You have battles to fight this next year in many areas of your life. Choose your battles wisely. Fight the ones worth fighting and walk away from the others peacefully. Remember how you are loved so deeply.
Am I copping out when I say that I hope not to have to BE a lesbian someday? Though I am a lesbian, and I love the idea of lesbian culture and I love the lesbian culture that is my everyday life among my vivid and wonderful friends. But when I am with my lesbian friends and lover and we are laughing and making music and being goofballs, then I am not having to BE lesbian. Does that make sense? In this group, no one has to represent anything specific because we all just are and do. It's like when I look in the mirror - I don't see WOMAN or DYKE or COLOR or, usually, AGE. Although I do see age in the mirror sometimes in a flash of recognition. I just see the body I have been in now for 43 years, familiar, expected, changing only imperceptibly.
BEing anything just feels like so much work.
And yet I know that it is crucial that people like Rosie and the million brave ones who speak out do speak out and make dialogue happen. It's not that I am afraid to have dialogue. It's that I am tired of BEing, of being The Lesbian in the human zoo so that all the not-lesbians can point me out to their children. But we have to speak out and continue BEing so that we can continue working to prevent anti-gay hate crimes, discrimination, all the things that can happen to us if we go silent.
But what would it be like just to live and breathe and work in some gentle, humane existence where no one has to BE anything?
Hello cute.
I must say that I agree with "cyn". I am a bit tired of being "something". I know that all of us being a part of a whole, singing the coca-cola song in harmony is not realistic. I do wish however that I didn't have to always be the lesbian, or the girl who isn't as feminine as other girls, or whatever. Don't get me wrong, I do understand the necessity to identify with your culture, race, group, sexuality, religion, etc. It does provide the sounding board needed to make change as well as provide the safe space that is often needed as a minority. I do however have a worry, or maybe just a question of this... Is it possible that this could be perpetuating the prejudice? I will be honest, as a homosexual, I get a bit high strung when someone leads with a statement of them being Republican, or Christian. I imagine that they could probably feel the same if I led with me talking about my sexuality. Just as racists don't want to see minorities working for change, it's threatening. Fear is powerful. I just wonder what it would be like if we didn't seperate ourselves by our differences from the norm (whatever that is). It just seems like the more we seperate, the more angry people become. Plus, being seperate helps identify difference, thus making it easier for people to find issues with those differences. I don't know, just a question, observation, whatever. Do with it what you will.
Change is difficult for us. Which I must say, as a history geek I find fascinating. Since, if it weren't in part the need for change, this country may have never been a reality.I believe that although this society claims tolerance, acceptance and peace...we are just the opposite. Our society is very prejudiced and bigoted. We just do it under the guise of something else. (Safety, terrorism, family values, morality...)I worry everyday about whether or not I will see homophobia change in my lifetime. Like I told you one day in class, it took centuries for African Americans to be reluctantly treated as human beings, and still today the social ramifications of enslavement are being felt. Will we ever be accepted? I am not so sure, but I will continue to hope for it.
As far as Rosie...I disagree with her. I could understand her stance if clay aiken had come out of the closet already, but he hasn't. We can all speculate, but until the words come from his mouth, we just don't know. Rosie claimed to be his good friend, leading me to believe that she knows him fairly well. If that's the case, and she does know more about him than the general public does, then she just outed him on national tv. I would rather have someone be upset at me for disrespectfully and immaturely placing my hand on their mouth, rather than be outed by a friend before I was ready.
That's all. Good luck with your homework.
I have read what you have written and first off i would like to appologize for the actions of alot of people that i share this world with. There alot of people in this world that only feel comfortable when they are showing some sort of judgment over others. Unfortunately this counts for just about everybidy in the world. There are those that recognize this in themselves and chose not to act on it always. There are others that feel they know what is best ofor others and dont even try to put them selves in the shoes of others first. It is these people that we wiser ones need to look out for. These people might seem a bit harsh however i am perfectley comfortable in recognizing them uin this way. These people are so insecure in the worlds that they have created for them selves that they need to branch this insecurity out upon others. They may feel that if theor comfort is tested in any way the world as they know it would become unbarrible. They seem to believe that what they consider to be sinnful for lack of a better word should not be permitted. These people do not understand that people where given free will for a reason. That reason being the ability to make the best chioces for themselves what ever that may be.
I feel like i also need to appologize for allowing someone in my life that is openly homophobic. I have tried a million times to tone down this homophobia but it has never worked. I often ask myself why do i permit this behavior in my life or my presense and then the answer comes to me. Because i cannot control the chioces that this individual makes for himself. To allow him his own chioce is the best gift that i can give him. There for i shall not appologize for him. I will hoever recognize his need to appologize to me and his judgements there fore.
I dont know if this is helpful in any way but i hope that it is and ferther more i hope that it made sense.
As for the language that one is still a puzzler for me. It seems that this is still such a new and ever changing subject. I do feel thata it is unappropriate to make fun of some one just because their life or lifestyle makes you uncomfortable. But it happens every where. For addicts to race to life style choice to religion ect. Thats where we need to start working is our own comfort level not at how others make us feel. That i believe has nothing to do with it. If we where all completely comfortable in our own lives they we would not need to make fun of others or judge them. Hey and good for you for being out there and being open. There are many things i wish i could push the envelope on but it is not yet my time to do so.
Cynthia
hi. I hear what you are saying about your mom's friend. I have to say that because the gay population can't get married that we are always to viewed as "dating". I think its up to the person who is in the relationship to decide at what point they are no longer considered "dating". Are you currently living with your partner? Do you currently have children, vacation together? Ask that lady if she would allow your partner to sleep in a different room, or if a straight couple were in the same scenario if she would let one of them sleep in a different room. The hardest part about this whole thing is that because the gay community can't get married its completely assumption based on the behalf of the people who care to know about people sex life, such as your mom's friend. I can't say if she is homophobic or not... this could be a complete religion thing... (which in my eyes is homophobia, but I choose not to follow those religions), but if you yourself can't identify with where she is coming from, and in fact her stipulations are case specific... then don't do it. I myself try not to get mixed in with the whole crowd of not being recognized because of lack of marriage rights. In fact, if marriage had been an option for me I would have been divorced by now.. and thats not a political statement, but more so a statement of my over zealousness in relationships...
I don't need people to tell me if I am worth having my GF over to stay the night, I don't need to be in a lease agreement where some lady to some extreme gets to choose who sleeps in my bed... because there isn't a universal code of what committed gay relationships looks like. I don't identify with these people, as much as they don't identify with me.
thats all I got for now.. running late to work. Gotta go, hope its somewhat legible.
Wow Chelsea, a lot of insight into your world here. Since you are inviting dialauge, here it goes.
1. On your housing crisis. I thing for a fundamentalist christian, it's a huge step that she even offered you a place to stay regardless of her stipulations. It appears to me she is attempting to overcome her closed-minded view of homosexuals, and I think it should be applauded. However, you have a great point about being gay in Oregon and unable to legalize your commitment. I have a hunch that even if you were legally married to your partner, she would not have allowed you to stay, so this appears to be a stale-mate.
2. Employment. It appears you were the victim of some prejudice behavior/comments, but I have to say here that regardless of sexual orientation, everyone in some way shape or form has been the victim of prejudice behavior at work, whether it be gender, age, appearance race etc., so while this doesn't make it right, I'm just commenting on the reality of being an employee anywhere. I empathize with your anger and decision to take it to another level. Learn from this and move on. I've been the victim of ageism and sometimes feel that being an attractive young women, I get the short end of the stick by older less attractive employees where I work.
3. The Rosie-Ripa incicident. I think Rosie is completely over-reacting. Ripa has never expressed homophobic comments and therefor I think its unfair to assume this comment had anything to do with Clay Aiken's sexuality, nor do I think it had anything to do with Women being wrongfully silenced for too long. I think he put his hand on her mouth, and she made a comment made to be funny. Anyone who watches her on a regular basis should see that comment as right in line with her type of commedy. I'm glad Rosie is an activist, but as is the case accross the board, sometimes peoples/organizations make "examples" out of situations/cases etc., for the good of their argument. This is a huge stretch.
I enjoyed your blog. As a nurse, I want to comment to you that I've had similar thoughts/confusion relating to people's gender and what gender means. I have patients who are gay, transgender, hemaphrodite, etc., and it's opened my eyes tremendously. I have learned that gender doesn't define someone, just like race. How often do we describe somebody as gay, black, white etc.? Before we can elimnate judgment we have to stop using any of these identifiers, but change is a process and takes years and years. I'm proud to live in Portland because I think Portlanders tolerate more diversity that other cities, but we have a long long way to go.
One more thought: If you don't know how to refer to somebody r/t gender, ask them. I've learned this to be the most respectful way.
Good luck in your class Chelsea!
Thank you so much for this blog... I really enjoyed it. As far as my opinions on it I understand your decision for not moving into the before mentioned apartment, though it deffinetely was an improvement on her part that she even saw that as an option. I also think it is wonderful that you are going to talk about the issue with her, I always am suprised when people address things up front with people, because most of the time I don't have the guts or the calm mindedness to do it.
As far as the job situation I understand that it deffinetely was inapropriate actions on the part of your co-workers and supervisors. I have been faced with similar situations and just rude comments being made to me from co-workers and from customers that go to my work place. It is uncalled for in every situation but especially at a work place, somewhere that you often spend so much of your time and life, and also that you are putting your time and effort into helping out that establishment. I commend that yet again you tried to take action and I am sorry that it was not taken up.
This is the first that I have heard of the Clay Aiken incedent and agree that Rosie's remark was not exactly on mark, but at the same point it sounds like Kelly didn't have a better explanation for it. I think that some gay people often try to read into things that sometimes aren't there to bring up issues that need to be discussed, and I think Rosie saw that that may have had something to do with homophobia and brought it up. But either way it is inapropriate for anyone to put their hand over someones mouth. It is degrading and humiliating no matter what the circumstance.
I just I dunno lately have been experiencing so much homophobia and just plain stupidness on the part of society that this blog really I dunno made me happy, that I am not alone and as a minority we experience this shit on a daily basis and these things need to be addressed. Unfortunately there is only so much that we can do, other people need to change their opinions and ignorance. Anyways I am exhausted so thanks again.
hey lady...
so. you're talking about a fairly wide range of instances of oppression, altho in your case the type seems to be predominantly gender/sexuality related. I'm going to give you a fairly general response.
bell hooks talks about the racist sexist homophobic capitalistic etc etc means of oppression to make the point that the behaviors of oppression are something that seem to be endemic to human beings regardless of the specific members of the outgroup, and I agree with her.
I've had similiar experiences of sexism and homophobia tho I have not yet lost a job (gotta say the owner doesn't know I'm gay and I doubt I'll bring it up). What fucks with my head more than being oppressed at this point is how I participate in oppressing others. It doesn't seem to be escapable- whether or not I want my brain to do so, it insists on making boxes for color and gender and sexuality and probably a bunch of other shit I don't even notice because it's too subtle.
For example. about a year ago I was walking thru powell's and my brain was going "boy, girl, girl, boy, boy, trans man." Internally, I thought "wow, all on it's own, a new subconscious category" and was kind of pleased with myself until I talked to a trans woman who gave me a well-deserved scolding.
I don't really think I have a conclusion for this- pre judgement and categorisation of one another seem to be something we're stuck with as universal human traits. I guess I mostly think if someone is obviously being hateful it's good to tell them eloquently to fuck off, but most of the time it seems to be ignorance, not malevolence that's the problem, at least it feels that way when I'm the one putting my foot in my mouth.
hope this is helpful
Hey Chelsie, here are some reflections on your blog. First, I want to say that I'm aware that my responses to your blog are from a very confident perspective that has thousands of years of male dominated civilization behind it. So whatever, but I'm just saying that. Much of this is generalizations based on assumptions that I've made. Much of it is broad statements.
Anyway, my initial reaction is to ask this question: Why do people have to respect each other? And does respecting someone mean that you'll let them move into your house and do whatever they want?
When I think about the situation with your mom's Christian friend it seems to me that she actually gave respect beyond what was necessary by explaining that she wouldn't let a straight, unmarried couple get busy in her house. All that was necessary to communicate the stipulations of the “lease” was to say, “ you can stay here, but no overnight guests. Take it or leave it.”
If a person doesn't want something in their house, that's a legitimate stipulation to make. What's discriminatory about this situation is not the rental agreement, it's the fact that you can't be legally wed to your partner.
Suppose that I don't want any guns in my home, and one of my friends comes over carrying licensed pistol (in a holster), knocks on my door, squirming because he has to take a shit. I would tell him to leave the gun outside, and he would say no, and I would say then you can't come in to take a shit, and he would say, “fuck you,” and leave. The bottom line in this situation is that I didn't want a gun in my home, regardless of it's legality or reasonableness. He may say that it was a situation that discriminated against him, but wouldn't it have been a situation that was discriminatory toward me if I were compelled to abandon my convictions and let him bring his gun into my home?
The response to this line of argument is that a person can't leave her/his queerness at the door, and I understand that feeling. But I would say, yes, a person can. People leave all kinds of things at the door when they go places, their sexual habits being one of them. When you interact with people, you try to get a feel for who they are and how much of yourself you should volunteer. What you're doing is your trying to interpret their value system so you can figure out the best way to get what you want from them. When I go to meet a prospective landlord, I don't present myself as a person who has done things that they would perceive as fucked up and grotesque. When I go to meet a new landlord, I leave my past at the door. If, over the course of my lease, they discover that I'm not the person I portrayed myself as, so what?
This gets to the thing that I think is the biggest mistake of the “gay movement” (if there is a better expression, insert it). The way to get social acceptance isn't to force oneself on others. Marches and demonstrations may make some political difference, if you can get really big turnouts, but they just reinforce prejudice in people who already have it. Similarly, introducing one's personal sexual habits into public life makes who, why, and how one fucks a conversation piece. Whether it's gay, straight, or something else, that's going to make people uncomfortable which reinforces their prejudice.
It does something else. It gives all one's power away. Constantly asking for acceptance, love, recognition, ect. from everyone has the effect of actually reaching no one. It reduces the movement to a single issue whisper in a cacophony of political clamor. In this environment gay people are perceived as being nothing more than homosexual. I'm sorry to say this, but I don't have much respect for such one dimensional types either. Gay, straight, or other, I want to know that an individual or a group can offer more to society than their sexual habits before I'll give them any serious thought. I know that most homosexuals do many more things than just have sex, but I would suggest examining the political message to see how homosexuals are portraying themselves. My opinion is that it portrays homosexuality as a fringe sex cult.
This is true in personal interactions as well. Identifying oneself as homosexual is sensible, but the desire to identified as a homosexual by others gives a very narrow perspective on one's entire person.
I realize this isn't the case in the employment scenario. In that scenario your sexuality was a constant in the equation because your partner would meet you at work. I would like to know more about this situation because I can't tell from the blog if you got fired for being gay or because your gayness created a distraction in the work environment or something. What it sounds like to me is that the Chef made a fucked up comment, which from the little I know about it just sounds like some miserable person's cynical sense of humor, not an attack on you. And the waiter comment is similar, just some dude talking. Sure, he made a lewd comment about pussy to a lesbian. But why does everyone have to censor themselves?
My response is that there should be two sets of focus in this blog: (1) the important things (2) the less important things.
The important things, in my view, are that homosexuals can't be legally wed and that prejudice against homosexuality may have caused you to get fired. These issues should be addressed.
The less important things are that your mom's friend doesn't want unwed (and possibly married homosexuals) people sleeping together in her house and the two comments made by coworkers. Focusing on these issues make the plight of homosexuals seem frivolous because no one, no matter who they are or what they do, can leave their home and expect everyone to be sensitive to them.
Something else I want to suggest is that is unrelated to this blog is that the most successful and loved people in our culture are the ones who keep their personal life to themselves. They know what makes people uncomfortable, and often it is things that they enjoy doing, like cocaine, fucking whores, unethical business practices, and so on. They just don't talk about it. I think it has something to do with playing hard to get. When you play hard to get, people love you. When people give themselves away by letting everyone into their personal life, they seem cheap and pathetic. I don't meant to be rude, and I don't view homosexuals as being cheap and pathetic, but I think this is a major mistake that homosexuals make, assuming that their goal is to be accepted into mainstream society.
Anyway, good luck on your project.
hello lover.
since i am obviously inept and i replied on your blog twice only to not have it be posted, i am reverting to this media, hopefully it works.
rosie...you know i think she was overreacting. she claims that she is very good friends with clay aiken, this leads me to believe that they obviously have a better, closer relationship than we do to either of them. i don't know if he's gay, i can speculate all i want, but until he utters the words from his mouth i do not know. it is my assumption however that rosie, if she is such a good friend, probably knows about his sexuality. if this is the case, she did more damage than kelly did. if it were me, i would rather be embarrassed by kelly being irritated at my disrespectful, immature mouth covering, than i would be by my good friend outing me on national tv. that's all.
as for the rest. i must say that i agree with 'cyn' on your blog who stated that having to always "be" something gets a bit old after awhile. yes, my relationships are with women which is obviously out of this society's "norm". but honestly, that's so boring compared to the other things that i have to offer. i swear, the fact that i LOVE reading about history is probably more out of the "norm" than being a homosexual is these days.
i wonder about us always having to "be" something. whether it be a culture, or race, gender, sexuality, religion etc... is this possibly more damaging than it appears? don't get me wrong, safety, identification with others, and commonality are very compelling and also necessary for our well being as well as for progress on the whole. i do get that. i do however wonder if the fact that we have to claim something in the name of progress is just perpetuating prejudice. someone will always disagree, so when we point out our differences, could it in fact bring out even more opposition. i mean let's face it, i get all wound up at people who claim to be christians, republicans or conservatives. i automatically think they are against me. well, i'm sure that as soon as i claim homosexuality, they may automatically assume that i am a danger to their values as well. i know that common bonds are not really part of human nature. holding hands and singing the coca-cola song in harmony is unrealistic. i just wonder if we all really lived and let live would it affect change in a different way. just a question to ponder perhaps.
our society is not ready for change. it really never has been. this country was founded under the guise of freedom and an attempt to rid society of oppression. the reality is, that is just as much a load of bull as our society preaching acceptance, tolerance and love. this is a very bigoted, judgemental and prejudiced society, it's just done under the guise of something else. safety, terrorism, family values, morality, financial security.
i worry about whether or not me, or you, our friends etc... will ever be accepted. like i told you one day in class. it took centuries for african americans to be given (sort of) equal billing as human beings. and even today society is affected by all those years of enslavement. might not ever happen. that is a disappointing thought.
well, hopefully my usual ramblings will help you out in some way. sorry it isn't much that you haven't already heard.
good luck.
love you.
sharla
Misti -
In response.
You are right in presenting those questions to myself for examination. I am not living with my partner and have decided not to at this point. Even coming to the point of using the descriptor of 'partner' has been a bit difficult (doesn't it sound grown up and eternal?). No, we do not have children (thank god it might kill me at this point in my life) and of course, we vacation together (and of course that looks different depending on where we are vacationing: her parents, my parents, alone, in a small community, in a big city, etc...)
And it would be interesting to ask her if she could stay in a different room and I wonder what that response would look like, and if it would look the same for a straight couple. I recall that she had a couple staying with her before and that there was some issues regarding the rights as a couple.
I think often people assume that because the relationship isn't formalized in a 'marriage' or legal commital that it is simply 'dating' or based purely on sexual impulse and that is something that deserves clarity. That is why I would prefer and do prefer to express my affection (innocently) in front of people who do not always have the opportunity to witness this. I'm not talking about making out in front of the family but simply hugs, nuzzles, pecks, or what have you.
And I agree with you that most religions are homophobic (and therefore patriarchial, white supremicist, even capitalistic sometimes, and a whole slough of other things) and that is why I do not ascribe to any as well.
There is no universal code that describes any relationship: straight or gay.
Tavia.
I certainly applaud the will of this woman to overlook what her religion deems as inappropriate behavior and open up her home to me at a time when I was having difficulty finding a home. And I haven't asked her if her opinion would change provided that the state legalized gay marriage.
In fact, I don't know that I agree with marriage as an overall commitment since it is really based on capitalization of a relationship and not actually the commitment. Marriage is also a really big step in life and something not to be taken lightly.
You are right, everyone has felt some sort of discrimination in the workplace. As women, we can certainly account for sexual harrasment and I would be surprised if any of the women I know, could identify a job where they weren't sexually harrassed. It has happened at every position I have had. We are also discriminated against due to our ability (as I am sure you know), our age, gender, appearance, etc. Of course it is wrong yet it is so pervasive that I see no end to it. We can put legislation into place and still, things like this occur (as demonstrated). I guess it is something that is a one-person-at-a-time challange.
And yes, I agree, it is a huge stretch for Rosie and several gay identified people I know would agree with you on that.
And as well, I might bring to your attention that even the use of the clinical term 'hermaphrodite' is dated. A good friend of mine brought this to my attention, and I have done a considerable amount of research on it is as well. I believe Intersexed is the more appropriate term and even that is changing depending on who is using the term.
My interest in you post is mostly directed at the illimination use of identifiers in order to stop judgement. In this day of identity politics, some people really hold onto those identifiers as important parts of their identity. Would you or I be able to give up our identity as women and go genderless? Some people aruge that this post-modern world view only helps to fracture and splinter solid political movements (such as feminists). So I'm torn, thinking that the catagorization of people is wrong, but that identity itself is very important. What do you think?
And thank you for sharing your views tavia. I really appreciate it.
Liana
I think that Kelly's explanation on The View was wobbly, but who can put together a good explanation or formulate words when they are pissed off, upset, or emotional. I certainly can't.
All people often read into things and I will implicate myself in that as well. Certainly, there could be another explanation for my firing, or the conditions of living at my mothers friends house, or comments that people say to me on the bus when I am out in public with my s.o. Projections. Insecurities. Triggers. Issues.
I agree with you, we need to address things more often.
Madeline
Yes, these are gender/sexuality related issues. Certainly not the issues that I have been examining at length this year but an important part of my identity and certainly my daily life.
And I agree with bell hooks that oppressive behaviors are endemic to human beings and certainly something that each of us should be looking at in our daily lives. I have found myself acting oppressively and thinking oppressively and have been called out on it. I have also acted oppressively towards myself and find that to be just as disturbing. Breaking free of the cycle isn't an easy task. I dont know that it can completely take place in an individuals life. We are such a 'box based' society. We are constantly asked to denote ourselves and our identities. I am interested in hearing more about your conversation with the trans-woman and what she called you out on. In my opinion, those conversations are the most important - would you agree?
Matt.
I appreciate your openness and thoughtful response to this blog. I definately appreciate you identifying your prespective as having 'thousands of years of male dominated civilation behind it.' More so, I too ask myself the question of why people even have respect for each other. Sometimes it seems much more natural to just be frank about our attitudes.
I was watching this program on turets the other night and found it so interesting. It appeared that subconcious thoughts, the ones that people without turets censor, socially fed images even, were just pouring out of this one individuals mouth. It was amazing. What if we were all like that. Whose feelings would get hurt. Wow.
Anyhow. Sure. She has the right to give that stipulation that as I renter I have no overnight guests absolutely. And maybe I was putting words into her mouth, I have to look at that. You are right that the discrimination takes place at the state level but I still think that it is taking place here as well and maybe that comes from my understanding of her political and religious beliefs and my belief that Christianity is oppressive in itself.
My sexuality is something that I refuse to leave at the door, even if it changes and someday I identify as something other than what I am today. I certainly am not going to intentionally make out in front of someone to make them uncomfortable (however, I did that once at a pro-choice rally by the "sinners are going to hell" sign holding folks - so maybe I am a hypocrit).
I guess we all go through a negotiation process where we check ourselves based on another persons comfort level whether that is a potential landlord, in laws, parents, family, etc...
I certainly am not forcing myself on others and I agree with you that is not the appropriate way to get social recognition. Recently, the GLBTQAI group on campus had a pride celebration and had SissyBoy come out ( I think) and wrestle in lube. I thought this to be kinda tacky (although, laughable to some). It wasn't the way I believed a greater population would be accepting of our community. Marches and demonstrations have made significant strides in history for many organized groups although, this doesn't seem to be working for the gay community. I am not sure what will. It sometimes seems a hopeless battle.
And yes, asking for acceptance all the time does consume and individuals power so, we have to be what we are, on the streets, in parades, in front of people that it makes uncomfortable. I am not willing to give my power away to these people anymore.
How exactly are homosexuals portraying themselves in your view, is my question?
Aren't we a diverse enough community that we shouldn't be lumped into one larger bunch?
Do we really look like a fringe sex cult? There are not many homosexuals I see looking like this. In fact, we seem to be conforming to the heterosexual looking relationship more and more. We are getting kids, and homes and houses and white picket fences these days...
Occassionally at the bar, I would talk with a few select people about my situation. Small talk really, nothing in depth, mostly just a mention. And as a human, I should be able to identify in small talk who my partner is. Even if I was straight, referring to my boyfriend isn't out of the question. As a bartender, we are required to engage in conversation with our customers, make them feel good, at home, buy more liquor, right? Having a short haired woman with a motorcycle helmet in her hand, sitting at the bar waiting to give me a ride after work doesn't warrant firing even if it happens after every shift. Real life isn't like Cyote Ugly, looking and acting single isn't a prerequisite for working at Portland Brewing Company. I dont any public displays of affection anywhere near work. On the contrary, if I gave my boyfriend (provided that I was straight) a kiss on the lips in the parking lot before I came in or left work, is that grounds for firing? Why is that different if its a woman? This I have never understood outside of the fact that the dominant societies have these unreasonable expections of the less recognized groups.
Another reason I didn't pursue the legal situation was due to my understanding of the two chefs as individuals. Yes, cynical, dry humored individuals who I couldn't bring myself to charge with harrassment. I could've asked the other employees who heard these comments to stick up for me but didn't because, in fact, I really liked these people. But being fired is a tottally different issue for me. Since one of those instances with the chefs were presented in front of a group of employees (which included the individual who fired me), I feel my sexual orientation was the main purpose of my firing. I was a hard working employee who enjoyed the job and would put in extra hours and work. I was never given warnings and always complimented on my work ethic.
We can't ask for sensitivity all the time in this world but it might make it an easier place to live. I mean, cultural sensitivity may not have us in this ridiculous war.
I can't agree with you that the most loved people in our culture are the ones that keep their mouths shut. Silence serves no one. Martin Luther King Jr. didn't keep his mouth shut, bell hooks doesn't, Eleanor Roosevelt didn't. There are plenty of examples of people who do keep their mouths shut about the cocaine habits and unethical business practices that get called out and become unloved. We have examples of them all over the news. Sometimes they become loathed celebrities (see OJ simpson or Rush Limbaugh).
I might have taken offense to the cheap and pathetic claim of people who let other people into their private lives. I think this is also a silencing mechanism that is the societal norm and causes people to keep otherwise important life experience shut in. I believe its important to talk and not be made to feel cheap and pathetic about real life shit.
With that, I respect your opinion and look forward to more dialogue. And knowing you and thinking your also an incredible individual, I really appreciate you frankness.
Thanks Matt.
Everybody judges. Even good Christian folk who get it straight from the bible that we shouldn't judge. I think its human nature and we can try to curb it the best we can but it is a difficult challenge.
I think we all feel uncomfortable when our theory on life is challenged. Its can be a great experience that even I can recognize. God knows, I am not perfect and I have been called out before. These are the most memorable moments I have.
Choice is indeed the best gift we can give. We do need to work on our selves and let go of others opinions, sometimes. Sometimes we have to do the work. After all, descrimination does hurt all people involved if you have a high enough concious to recognize it. And maybe it is better that I didn't remain in that job. Besides, service industry folk get flipped like pancakes all the damn time.
I hate that people say things like, 'you wouldn't have even noticed he was gay, he was such a good guy." How fucking horrible is that statement. Like being gay is bad.
This was demonstrated to me last weekend by my girlfriends mother when she said, outloud, that she understood why an application would ask someone to identify if they were gay, when applying for a job working with children.
OH MY GOD!
Have we forgotten that the typical child molesters profile is a middle aged white straight male? I didn't call her out either and thats my bad. I should've. I should've.
Thank you for the updated term "intersexed", I will be researching it myself. It's much more appropriate, and I would love to use the appropriate word in my practice. I love your comment about the identifiers. You're right, to what end does this apply? I wouldn't want to have "woman" taken away from my identity. It's part of who I am. In that regard, perhaps identifiers are VERY necessary because they are a part of who we all are. Perhaps its up to us as individuals to choose our labels, then again, we don't write them on our forhead for everybody to see. It's a brain blunder. I think its evolving and open for discussion. In the meantime, what can I identify you with? So far, I'm just a woman. Oh wait. A young, vibrant liveral woman. Yeah; that's better.
you welcome tavia. someone called me out on this once and it is still something i regard as a great learning experience. it is also something i have done a lot of research on and think about constantly. i know your a great nurse and i would be delighted to be in your care.
you know whats even greater than all this. when we first met, i was prejudice towards you because your blonde, bubbly, and cute. what is great is i have found you to be fun, beautiful, smart, caring, and open. i think your wonderful.
thanks so much for participating and keeping in touch.
good times to be had when your around. be well tavia.
kay... so I just browsed what everyone else has written and here's my two cents:
Housing:
Kara and I were turned down for an apartment in Hillsboro, Oregon 'cause we were gay. The lady showed us the place, let us both spend twenty minutes filling out SEPERATE applications, then took our checks for $25 from each of us. By the time we made it back to Portland there was already a flippin' message declining our applications due to " an improper fit for the community." It was a fuckin' miniplex in Hillsboro with some single moms, a four by four in the parkway, and perhaps an old person or two. I was teaching kindergarten at the time, Kara was working for UPS. We are stellar Lesbian Poster children.... but what was it? Kara's short hair? My love for bright colors? No, just that we're gay. And I probably would've called the cops on any domestic violence we would've seen. Some people suck and some don't... the next place we applied to made it clear to us that they were catholic, they didn't believe in sin, but they believed in helping every human being they could. We paid one application fee and I even worked part time for them sanding/painting the outside of the building. Most of the children that lived there were hispanic, spoke no english, and were completely infatuated with watching me work the power tools. The migrant workers the owner hired off the bridges were also captivated by the wajita who could speak to them, wasn't affraid of them, wasn't affraid to get dirty, and worked just as hard as they did. Every situation is growth opportunity... you just have to figure out is yours or theirs.
EMPLOYMENT
Kara and I were married when the whole multnomah county gay marriage thang went through. When I called my bosses to let them know I wouldn't be in the next day, my boss said hell yeah, do what you can when you can. Go make history, my dear.
We went, Williamette Weekly took our pictures... hence the lesbian role poste child thang. We were the first lesbians to be featured in the WW write-up. Several parents saw the article and a "faculty" meeting was called to discuss the event. I decided that I really didn't want to share so much of my personal life with 100 some people... but I would share the news with my kids' parents. One parent upon sharing my story said " Now I know how it must have felt when the slaves were freed". Several mothers got together and demanded that they give us a bridal shower. The father that had the slave comment was one of three men at the shower. Later that year I was requested by the upper grade girls to teach them the waldorf version of sex ed. One of the faculty/parents had an extreme problem with this. What is she going to teach them? I heard her ask around a corner one day. I turned the corner and said "I not only hear you but I can see you, too." Any concerns should be addressed to me. I had one tenacious board member backing me (her son was in the my class, and adored me!), so she decided to fend off the freaks. I taught the class as scheduled, however for the first two days I was monitored. It was requested that I NOT talk about birthcontrol or homosexuality. Yeah right... with a curriculum that has female ejaculation built into it.... I'm supposed to leave out two other lessons. I tought the entire course and the girls recieved me well, as someone that knew more than their parents and they could direct real questions and conversations to. Some of the parents did have a problem with me, but I was backed by the higher selves of the community. I can only imagine what it would've been like if I worked in a public school... One day on the playground I hear one of my children say "ms. christine is married to a girl".... uh uh says the other.... uh huh says the girl, my mom told me and I'm gonna marry a girl too. She was five and my impact on those children will last a lifetime... a caring loving adult in their immediate world shared a truth and truth will live on --either in Audrey Lommen's bed or in her peers response to who she decides to have in her bed. ;)
I have experienced a magnitude of responses from my surrounding communities about the queer issues. I think laughter and joking helps. When I go home to NE OHIO, I become the lesbian ambassador spreading my good will whether I want to or not. That's the part that's probably the most irritating... not the honest questions or honest responses (no matter how ignorant... like "girls don't have real sex") The biggest drag for me is wearing the damn purple sash that says lesbian ambassador all the time. I didn't know that I'd have to educate so many, sometimes without even words. Kara's aunt said she knew that I was part of the family, when after dinner Kara and I were cuddling and I scratched her head, just like the aunt does to her own husband's head. She thought that queer meant something dreadful and wrong, when it's just another way to describe love. Even after dinner head scratchin' love. But all eyes and ears are upon us.... even us boring folk. Two dogs, a condo, a family car, and sunday brunch boring.
When I met kara's family for the first time, I was given instructions on who to talk to and not talk to. It was the "don't talk to" people in Kara's family that loved me the most. People are easier to reach on a one on one basis, higher truth willl always come through, and I will keep wearing my purple sash.
Thanks for sharing everything. It has made me feel less alone here.
I am in Turkey and because I don't have a girlfriend people assume I am straight. The blatent things people say here are very ignorant and different. Even the local GLBT community rejects alternative genders and gender expression, and the local social democrats don't back any sexual minorities because they would never win. And the only visual gay or Trans people in the Media are in entertainment. Hearing you talk makes me feel like the same thing is going on in America, just under the surface. In Turkey they are blatent about it, and more controlling.
Even my professor would get fired if he asked for an application to start a Queer studies class or program.
People for the most parts are idiots. I have been trying to rationalize why people act the way they do, and have lead myself to the "People are idiots"
motto. I am sorry so many people lack the knowledge and understanding to see past all of there petty, prejudging ways, but that's how people are going to act. It takes a big step that most people can't take due to a lack of willingness to accept. However, since people are idiots you must play above that, and if they don't want to take part in the wonderful breaths that you take, then take your beautiful breath to a place where people deserve it.
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